First | Prev || Next | Last
¿Question #167?
Debate: Is it acceptable to include slavery in historical boardgames?

TheGrimReeple: Yes, if you're willing to put in the effort to make sure it's done appropriately, and with understanding of both the historical and modern context.
Inkedad: you can't place blame on the game, only the people wishing to find enjoyment out of it.
spcsamri: I feel... unqualified to answer this...
oldhoss: Underground Railroad is high on my wishlist.
BOBBYCAN: No. We should all just pretend that bad things never happen.
wynnjg: probably not the best idea and certainly in very bad taste.
ajax013: yes. it's historical.
paedia: yes
bcooperok: If it is not, it is probably not okay to include it in GeekQuestions either.
resin: not as a legitimate long-term strategy
pizza the hutt: yes
Phil Fleischmann: Yes.
aramis: Yes.
Felimid: Slavery was a real part of history, so, yes, I believe it should be part of historical boardgames ... it's part of "Endeavor", for instance, and my first/only game (so far) had slave cards. Personally, I wasn't thrilled about that and succeeded in never needing to pick a slave card. But historically, the slave cards belonged in the game.
INTJ86: It's not pc... I don't know what you mean by "acceptable."
Woelf: Sure, if you call them "colonists".
vandemonium: Sure why not. If you can't look bravely at things done wrong there is no hope to avoid repeating them, eh?
hob69: I would say yes, in the context of the period. No point denying the past.
geniuslegume: Yes.
ZeroZilla: Acceptable, probably (depending on usage). Adviseable? Not really, I think...
Polgara: yes, if it's historically accurate
FNH1: Yes
noursy: probably
Dieselboater: yes -- it happened, it exists today, history should not be rewritten to be Politically Correct (but is all the time anyway).
badfish20: Are there death camps in WWII games?
hancock.tom: yeah, hence the name historical
foxxdye: Of course. You may also use the word nigger and coon in such games. I'm sure the African Americans won't mind, it's a historical game after all.
POvidiusNaso: Of course.
aleo09: slavery of who
DHEK: Sure, everything goes, man. Nothing's sacred.
Numskull: Absolutely. Sanitizing or rewriting the nasty parts of history while presenting it as the real thing is completely unacceptable.
Elf__Man: yes. It's a part of history, isn't it?
Sandy Petersen: Sometimes.
diemacher: Yes, Puerto Rico does and was a hit
Mr_Six: Yes to a point. Not in the guise of encouraging it though.
tdyck: yes, lets not act like it never existed
sdonohue: As long as it isn't put forth as a better way of life, yes.
GrimJester: certainly
Leo-T: Yes.
GVogel: Yes. You can't change history - but I'd hope that you aren't going to glorify it in this case.
erikk: It's not history if you ignore important parts of it.
dmomo: Depends who gets to define acceptable. Also depends on the motive of the designer. It'd be folly to ignore History. Free speech is important. Though if it were offensive, I would likely think less of the person who created it.
kerneld: Yes, so long as it isn't glorified.
vampywife: i guess it depends on how it's incorporated. if it's tasteful and for historical value, the it's probably ok, but if it's quite the opposite, like in something intended for sell to racist dullards, then no, leave it out.
waddball: Yes, but the manacles often make the game too heavy to ship at a reasonable cost.
FrozenHoHos: It's part of history. You don't have to agree with it, just acknowledge it's occurence.
ZombyDawg: Yes, even if the slaves are white. How many Irish got Barbadosed by Cromwell?
mlanza: Sure, but not to glorify it.
ralpheous: yes. to ignore unpleasant events of our past indicates an unwillingness to learn from them which is worse than the "insensitivity" of including them in something as "trivial" as a board game
kuchick: it's certainly better than pretending slavery never happened.
dwarf: Depends on how it's used.
ststrat: It is not acceptable to pretend it didn't exist.
Chris Page: Yes, but very carefully.
puffinge: yea just don't overdo it.
korppu: Yes
SiddGames: Where it has a context within the game and is not gratuitous (e.g., Struggle of Empires).
rawdawg: Keyword "HISTORICAL!"
davidgpeterson: yes - we include murder so why not?
bigbadsteve: I think it would depend on the context
_Kael_: GOOD question. You can tell by the number of answers. My answer: think it's inappropiate as game-mechanic ("if I whip slaves, I'll win") or subject. So it can be IN the game (Egyptians building pyramids, there's no question do I/ do I not use slaves, they were the main labour force) but shouldn't BE the game.
jasta6: not in todays world buddy!
pedrolisboa: If most people see war, which is probably a display of humanity at its worst, as a fit theme to include in boardgames (as do I), then why not slavery?
Loquutus: Not as a main mechanic, but I have no problems with them in PR or Amun-Re.
Tushratta: If it's germane to the theme and history. I'd think it would be tasteless to do a historical game about slavery.
flyinghogfish: If it's historical and the history supports it, then yes?
Throkda: While slavery is a tragedy in our history, it is nevertheless part of history, and so long as it is treated with respect and not in a way that shows this behavior as acceptable in today's society, then including is in an historical boardgame is tolerable.
Bahamut-X: Why not
mats-k: Of course.
maratha: no
GI Joe: Sure
javelin98: Yes. It's a part of history and must be dealt with.
Great Dane: Sure - and no, they were not colonists in Puerto Rico. They were Transported Convicts
consolewa: Entirely. Historical revisionism is frightening, let alone unpalatable.
GrandpaDave: Yes...like it or not, it happened
Karlsen: Yes
obob: it is NOT acceptable to LEAVE IT OUT if it would be germane
Mikebegeta: it happened and it is history
Mease19: I think this is acceptable w/ propper disclaimers. It might be better perhaps to give incentives against it such as greater ability to produce or more "happiness points" for your people...
sbszine: Yup. And to answer the wider question, it's acceptable to include anything at all. If it offends you, don't buy it.
tipigi: yes, if truly done in a historical sense.
skrutsch: With sensitivity.
CapAp: Yes
ssmooth: Is slavery historical?
Lord_Prussian: If it is relevant to the game. It's probably not a great choice for themes/topics for a game, but I suppose it is acceptable.
The Unbeliever: 42
leece: Have you noticed that in Vinci everyone tends to dogpile on the Evil Slaver? If you edit away all the nasty bits how will people ever realise it was bad, a few generations down the track. We've got to compare ourselves against what was, and strive to be better.
funkhauser: If authenticity is necessary, then yes, but it should be implemented with sensitivity.
puzzleme: Political correctness = Intellectual dishonesty
DangerMouse: Yes.
arielmt: Hmmm... not sure.
Randy Cox: Not if you want to make any money on the game.
Sceadeau: Sure
glookose: depends on your point of view
Gecko23: Of course. History is history, its just stupid to whitewash it. It'll never make in on the shelf at Kmart though. :)
2amp: it IS history.
otrex: Of course it is... history is meant to be experienced completely, not just the parts that everyone agrees with.
chad56s: Yes; if history were always pretty, it'd be great. But it's not.
snoozefest: sure
fehrmeister: Yes, depending on context. And no, in Puerto Rico, they're COLONISTS.
Jern: Yes
scriptorum: Yes, absolutely.
Quest22: yes
Windopaene: Has slavery been a part of history?
fizzix: It happened and not just to Africans, so ignoring it seems silly. A game specifically about slavery would be in bad taste.
AWildEep: Yes
UhhhClem: Omitting it's worse.
steadym: Yes.
seanp: It depends on the presentation
thoia: I would think if it's for historical purposes only.
queequeg: yes
cobra: since slavery is part of history, then yes, if the game is about a period and region with slavery
heli: depending on how it's presented
AlorielLelyn: If we cannot learn from the mistakes of the past, we are doomed to repeat them. Include it, but do NOT trivialize or glorify it. Point out how terrible it was.
m_r_tyler: Sure.
tragicpoet: It is unacceptable to not recognize it's importance in world history.
kennyb: yes
dakarp: Yes
Jackwraith: It's a fact of history, unfortunately.
GuyHill: yes, if properly done
Blackwind: sure
klarkinhistrep: Yes
Bluenose: Yes. nothing should be excluded from a game, just like comedy.
viogression: Yes
fellonmyhead: Yes, and it is unacceptable to bestow one's beliefs on fellow gamers.
chaddyboy_2000: Yes.
onky: no
djflippy: Yes. Hence, the word, "historical".
P.O.G.G.: it is to me
Steve Leach: yes
djlg: Yes, its historical isn't it? But that doesn't mean everyone has to buy it.
Belash: yes
BobDodgerBlue: It should be faced, but not condoned.
jaredh: it should never be the primary mechanic or goal.
Ludocrazy: Yes, unfortunately, it was part of history.
jens_hoppe: Sure
KakarisMaelstrom: Yes and glossing it over is rather silly.
Shakar: Yes, but it depend how you implement it.
Gonzaga: As long as you know how to handle it
netfilterz: yes
Denise: Well, yeah. History is history, trying to pretend it didn't happen doesn't make things go away.
berserkley: yes, as acceptable as using death, destruction and carnage in a war boardgame
yossarians: yes
Draugnar: yes
mrbeankc: Yes as one can't ignore one's past and hope to learn from it.
simon craddock: Yes
Gelatinous Goo: yes, but only if you are prepared to accept reality on it's terms. But if you need to have life dumbed down and filtered through your idealistic simplicity, then no.
Flyspeck23: Guess so.
kzman13: Sure, Do you like Puerto Rico
statonv: Yes...but don't ask me to play them.
PghArch: Yes.
daw65: Understanding that there is a threshhold of tastelessness to avoid crossing, yes.
Friendless: yep
hibikir: yep
seppo21: Is slavery an historical topic?
janiera: Yes
shotokanguy: yes
ejmowrer: Let me answer your question with a question. Have you ever played Puerto Rico?
CDRodeffer: Why not? It's historical. Heck, slavery is still practiced in some parts of the world.
locusshifter: It's historical because it's about history, right? So yes.
Bearcat89: As long as the game does not "glorify" slavery, it should be OK.
EYE of NiGHT: Yes.
skelebone: Yes, because it's part of the history.
Sky Knight X: yes
shumyum: Yes, but I'm generally not happy about it.
Donkey Thong: Sure
HBGlover: Yes.
nix342: Of course
louiseh: Acceptable to whom?
AnakinOU: Sure
jdroscha: yes
BaSL: yes, otherwise it's a bad historical boardgame
PopeBrain: yes
Gregarius: Yes
dietevil: Yes
Zambogirl: yes
rochs77: Of course, did it not occur or something? How does it go: "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it"?
Linnaeus: yes
Mike A: Yes.
CortexBomb: Absolutely, If it was a major factor in the time depicted it would be dishonest to not include it
ynnen: Yes, it's historical fact. Removing it would be like removing the violence, politics or other legitimate, accurate facts.
hacksword: Yes.
Ryno8: Yes.
sdownin: Yes
Geosphere: Yes
Dante_Cubit: Sure. Next up from Multiman Publishing, "The Auschwitz Management Game"
WasQ: why not? they exist... a shame, but it the truht
ValJor: Yes. You can't hide from it, it's part of our history.
TD2008YDS: lest we forget our sins
Snooze_uk: Yes. The more slavery the better.
sumo: Yes
MisterCranky: Yes, as long as the slaves fan me with palm fronds, and feed me peeled grapes.
Jon_1066: Yes
gnomehome: Of course
jttm: Absolutely.
Septic: of course!!!! Is it acceptable to include SS in historical boardgames? Well, yeah.
Debate: Yes
hooded_paladin: Yes. We must not sugarcoat anything at the expense of meaning.
bbenston: Yes